Interview: Mr. Francis Lickerish- ex- guitarist from The Enid; counselor, group therapist, workshop leader, and trainer.
Greetings Francis, I appreciate you taking the time to reply to this e-mail interview.
You are very welcome.
I believe you said that one of your idols on guitar was Jimi Hendrix. How much did Hendrix affect your guitar style and were there anyone others that influenced you in your early years?
Of course Hendrix was a milestone in electric guitar playing; a sort of rite of passage if you like, but it was more his background playing and accompanying that struck me. He used the guitar as another voice. Although there isn’t a guitarist on the planet who doesn’t owe something to Hendrix, I was never really struck by his band and for me, the band is everything. That is what I am into, the band as an organism, an instrument where each member is interdependent on the others and the sound is a product of the whole, a sort of gestalt. I was more influenced by people like Big Bill Broonzy, Ry Cooder, Martin Carthy and Julian Bream. For solo electric guitar playing, I love Peter Green’s musicality, and Jeff Beck’s. My musical education really began when I first heard Captain Beefheart and the Magic Band playing Drop Out Boogie on a late night John Peel show. From then on, I wanted only to combine English folk music with the rhythmic energy of the Magic Band. I suppose if you listen to early Enid, the link is hard to understand, but it is there, HONEST!!
How did you and Robert John Godfrey meet?
Well, during my early teens I attended a ghastly institution called Maidstone Grammar School for Boys. It was hell. All the masters wore mortar boards and black gowns, they were all at least 350 years old, smelled of cabbage and spoke in Latin. I could not make any sense of the place. I vaguely remember something about ox-bow lakes, but not much else. I just wanted to be a guitar player. To cut a long story short, I was an utter misfit and went the way of all misfits everywhere. I was turned into a problem and expelled. After that, I went to a very special place called Finchden Manor run by a man called George Lyward. I could go on for ever about Finchden, but let’s just say that it saved my life.
It was at Finchden that Steve Robert and I met. The place was having to close after the death of Mr Lyward and I had written a play with music as a sort of swansong for Finchden. It was based on the Arthurian Graal legends. Robert came to one of the performances (he had left a few of years previously) and that was the birth, or at least the conception, of The Enid. In The Region was started shortly after that. At that time, we were signed to Charisma records. I won’t go into how Steve Hackett took our ideas, or how Charisma let us down, but we moved to BUK records and In The Region was released.
What was your fondest memory playing in the Enid? The worst frustration or experience in the band? What is your favorite album and why?
The early days on the road were fantastic. I loved touring and in those days there were little rock clubs everywhere. Places like the Paradise Rooms in Burton-upon-Trent that could only hold about 100 people. We would get 300 or 400 and the atmosphere was terrific. I remember one particular gig very early on. It was in The Mayfair Ballroom in Newcastle-upon-Tyne. We were supporting Medicine Head who had just had “A Constant Glimpse of The Rising Sun” chart. The Mayfair Ballroom had a terrible reputation; violent, hostile and generally not somewhere that would welcome the Enid. Anyway, we went on and played and when we finished, the crowd went crazy. They were clapping and cheering and would not let us leave the stage. We did three encores, which understandably pissed, Medicine Head off a bit, and still the crowd wanted more. It was the first hint that the Enid might actually get somewhere.
The early days at the Marquee club in Wardour street were also great. It was a brilliant place to play for atmosphere and spirit. I remember one Christmas Eve it got so hot (There were something like 1500 people in) that the equipment packed up. We ended up doing a pantomime and singing carols.
The most frustrating period was towards the end of my time with the Enid. Punk, whatever anyone says, was a monster that refused to co-exist with anything else. We were considered to be “dinosaurs” and due for extinction by a music industry that really did not understand where we were coming from at all. There was virtually no backing or financial support, we were putting out albums into a void, knowing that there was no chance of them getting any promotion and it was a bleak time. On top of that, the band was starting to fall apart, mainly due to Robert’s rather Stalinesque leadership style.
My favourite album is probably Aerie Faerie Nonsense. For me it is the definitive Enid, but then what about In The Region..? Ok, my favourite album would be side 2 of In The Region and side 2 of Aerie Faerie, in the original conceptions, without all the dreadful stuff that they put on after I had left.
How was The Enid marketed particularly when punk and new wave were beginning to topple the creative music giants of the 70 s?
It wasn’t! Punk was one of the nails in the Enid’s coffin.
The music press were cruel and started all sorts of nasty rumours about us being fascist, cultist and so on. Nothing could have been further from the truth. A lot of this came from us doing Land of Hope and Glory as an encore. It was a laugh, that’s all. We used to do three encores; Land of Hope and Glory, Pretty Vacant (With me on drums) and Nimrod from Elgar’s Enigma Variations. We could play punk pretty well, but I doubt the Sex Pistols could have done Nimrod. So no, we were not marketed at that time, it was very difficult. I think it would have been hard to find a more dedicated, hardworking band anywhere on the planet. It took a lot of work to play what we played live, but we did and did it well. I am still sad that we were so mis-understood, but there you go.
Prior to the band s `Something Wicked This Way Comes, (released in 1980), you left The Enid, what ended your involvement in the group? Please explain. Do you still keep in touch with one another?
Something Wicked This Way Come was my idea for the Enid’s 4th album, but it somehow got transmogrified into Six Pieces, with that dreadful album sleeve. A sign of the times.
Basically, I ended my involvement with the group for the same reason that many others, musicians, record companies and managers, have ended theirs, Robert Godfrey. His behaviour and attitude towards others could be appalling and the final crunch came when he refused to pay my brother back his life savings. Dave had lent Robert the money out of kindness and goodwill. Robert was not even apologetic about it. It makes me angry to remember, and the many other things. There is a lot more that there is no point dragging up. It’s best forgotten.
The only person from the Enid that I am friends with now is Neil Kavanagh, the original bass player. He made a good career as bassist and singer with the band Gunhill.
One of your many `hats is providing services for healing, personal change and development. How did you make this personal change in your life to provide this type of help to others?
It just sort of happened really. I suppose along the way I’ve picked up a few things that might be useful to others. After a very dark period post Enid, I had to re-invent myself or die. So I did. I retrained as a therapist, went back to university to do a masters degree and now I act as a consultant to various drug and alcohol treatment centres in the UK. My first love, though, is still and always will be music and story telling.
Your site: http://www.francislickerish.co.uk/ mentions that you uses your skill as a guitarist and composer to highlight and complement these helping workshops. Please explain.
Ok, this is a tricky one to answer. As a composer, I always begin with an image, atmosphere or story. All my music is written in this way. For example, Fand is taken from the Irish legend of Cuchulain. It’s somewhat similar to being an illustrator, the story or image comes first and the music follows, if you see what I mean. I have a very strong belief in the power and reality of myth. In some ways myth is humanities true history and gives clear indications of how to evolve and become truly happy. Much great wisdom is contained in stories and legends, in fact I would go so far as to say that without them, we will become mere robots. Some music is universal; archetypal. Where does folk music come from? From the same place as language and every other real gift that we humans have. It is taught to us by the mountains, the rivers, the sea; by Mother Nature Herself. By using stories and certain kinds of music, one can reach beyond psychology and counselling into the common sustenance of us all and tap into streams of healing and nourishment. It is using the Life Force, Prana, Kundalini, Wyrd, Wivr, call it what you like. My recent experiences in India have strengthened my commitment to this kind of work.
You have experience in the `substance misuse treatment industry, helping people of all walks of life to get back on their feet. Was there rampant drug use when you were touring in the 70 s? If you stayed away from the drugs- how did you do it? If you did imbibe in these substances, how did you stop?
If by rampant drug use you mean in the band, well no not really. Except for cannabis, this was a staple. I had an interesting relationship with cocaine and alcohol, but life did not become unmanageable until after I had left the Enid. I spent some time in Ireland playing in Irish bands and that was a mad time. I was out of control, to say the least. In the end, my addictions cost me everything. Family, friends, you name it. Twenty years ago, I was a tramp living in the woods! I had to do something and so with the help of the universe and some wonderful people, I stopped drinking and using and began to re-invent myself. In a lot of ways, I am lucky to be alive. The early years of my recovery from addiction were difficult. I worked as a dog’s body in psychiatric hospitals;I worked with the homeless, with the mentally ill, in fact I did anything I could to make ends meet.
You seem to be a very spiritual person. What motivates you and keeps you positive?
Well thank you. I wouldn’t really describe myself as spiritual, but it’s a nice compliment. I’ve come into contact with some great teachings. Gurdjieff, Steiner, Aivanov and more recently Shin Shiva Svayambhum and I’ve learned things that are both deeply chilling and very exciting.
My view is that the real world is much, much more and entirely other than the tiny, grey, manufactured reality that we seem to choose to inhabit. There is a way back, and I believe that the whole human race is entering a critical phase in it’s evolution. The sacred is disappearing from the world and the human being is shrinking under the influence of empirical science that would have us inhabit a flattened out, merely measurable universe. Every major myth reflects this descent into mechanisation; every myth has it’s great hero (deva) and it’s anti-hero (asura). For example, the Sumerian creation myth talks of a great battle between Tiamet, the asura, and Marduk, the deva. I have said before that myth is the true history of mankind so make of this what you will. I am talking about a cosmic conspiracy behind all conspiracies. We can become truly human, not the greedy, grasping, lonely and isolated individual of modern psychology, philosophy and culture, but the open, whole, free, and majestic individual of the sun world. I have great hope.
A classic deserted island question with a twist- You can only have five CD albums, one type of food, one magazine, one type of drink, one book, one movie and one type of pet on this deserted island- please list what you would bring and why?
Question 10: Only five? Only one book!!
Ok. The cd’s would be: Vaughan Williams Symphony No.5, Clear Spot by Captain Beefheart and the Magic Band. Mahler Symphony No.2. Paul Odette Lute Music of John Dowland and Get Rhythm by Ry Cooder. I think!!! One type of food would have to be vegetable pilau.One drink. Does water count? If it does then I’ll have that, but if not then Organic Ginger Beer. I don’t read magazines so can I have two books? Thank you. The books would be Beelzebub’s Tales to His Grandson by G.I.Gurdjieff and Lord of The Rings by Tolkien. One movie would be Spinal Tap, just to remind me…. One pet would be my old dog Stanley. He’s dead now, but this is a magical Island, right?
I really liked the Tom of Bedlam tune. You mentioned on your myspace page that I am looking to create a very English sound with very little obvious sophistication or technical vavavoom. The Enid had it s moments of sophistication (as well as simplicity), are you trying to get away from the progressive/technicalities altogether or do you think there is still room to fuse the beautiful or traditional with the complex? (ala Gryphon).
I want to avoid technicality for technicality’s sake and move away from the huge romanticism of the Enid. Some of the stuff I am writing now is harmonically a bit odd, but not obviously so. Funny you should mention Gryphon, I used to be friends with Brian Gulland. I haven’t seen him for ages though. Yes of course one can fuse the traditional with the complex and I hope to be able to do that in a subtle way. Try and work out the chords to Tom of Bedlam and then see if it isn’t complex harmonically.
Your musical interests seem to have been revived. Please tell us what the new band is about. What do you want to do with your music in the up incoming year or two?
There isn’t a band as yet. So if anyone out there is interested in playing with an ageing hippie, please let me know. I want it to be first and foremost a live experience. The Enid were a live band and I am a live musician. I want to try and bring glimpses from another world, from faerie, from the hollow hills, from Tir Nan Og. A tall order I know, but hey, It’s worth a go.
Hans-Günter Boddin- a huge Enid fan from Germany- has two questions:
What types of guitar did you prefer in your Enid period? What guitar are you using now mainly?
Gibson 335, Peavey something or other and a Melvin Hiscock custom guitar, which I didn’t like very much. I also used a Rickenbacker 12 string and a Guild acoustic.
Nowadays I use a Stratocaster, a Takamine acoustic and a lute that was made for me by Art Robb of Wiltshire.
Enid music has been said to be "music for thinking people," isn't it music of and for the spirit as well? Your recent work seems to be very sensitive but less eccentric is that true?
I’m not quite sure what you mean. I hope it is sensitive, it’s very personal and don’t forget, they are all songs with lyrics. I haven’t found a vocalist yet. I suppose they are less eccentric than some Enid music; smaller and less architecturally huge. They are songs not symphonies.
Your site has some great quotes on it. What is your favorite? Is there any one philosopher, and/or wise man/woman that has influenced you the most and if so, in what way?
Mavlana Jalalu-'d-dln Rumi the Sufi poet is my favourite. My favourite quote of his is:
If you knew yourself for even one moment
If you could just glimpse your most beautiful face
Maybe you wouldn’t slumber so deeply in that house of clay
Why not move into your house of joy
And shine into every crevice
For you are the secret Treasure Bearer, and always have been.
Didn’t you know?
Gurdjieff has influenced me, Shin Shiva Svayambhu, Mikhail Aivanov, and Mullah Nasruddin. They have opened the doors to a much, much bigger world.
Any final words to fans and inspiring musicians?
To any fans, thank you for being there and I truly hope that my new music will resonate with you. For aspiring musicians. Be free, Be yourselves and spend a lot of time just dreaming. Light, Love and Life to you all.
Thank you so much for this interview, Francis. Keep on creating amazing music and as a school teacher, I really respect that you are helping people that desperately need sound council. This has truly been an honor.
Best Wishes and thank you for sharing your answers and thoughts, Lee
